The Pocket Dojo podcast: Episode #19 In conversation with Dr Claudine Perlet

A one-time corporate lawyer turned regenerative systems designer and and leader of transformative change describes how to drive systemic change in business

Some conversations surprise you, not least because of the ideas you have about how someone will think and show up who has had a very different life to you. That is exactly what happened when I sat down to talk with Dr Claudine Perlet, knowing that she once ran a substantial legal department of one the world’s largest corporate organisations.

I invited Claudine into a conversation because I wanted to hear about regenerative leadership from someone who developed interest and awareness of its practices through a path that I thought would look nothing like my own. And, I have to admit, I wanted to have my biases about how lawyers operate either (secretly) confirmed or proven to be totally wrong. I was humbled by the story that Claudine shared of her own transformation and journey in search of wisdom about how to live a worthy, good life on a planet increasingly troubled by environmental and social challenges.

Claudine spent more than 20 years in financial services, in different global leadership roles including the one I touched on above. 2017 was a turning-point for her, when she came to the deep realisation that something was fundamentally wrong in the world and set out on an exploration of personal development, trauma work and regenerative economics. That journey showed her that she wanted to contribute to the regeneration of finance.

Systemic barriers

The problem is that financial services are a predominantly extractive system that enable and support all the others. Entrenched values and behaviours, outdated legal frameworks and cultures, and the sheer power of the numbers that prop up the global economy make meaningful change very limited. The barriers to regeneration are systemic.

I asked Claudine about the possibilities and effectiveness, without ever taking our eyes off the ethics, of mandating regeneration in a neoliberal democratic society. The timeline for European law on environmental practices for large corporates and certain SMEs is speeding up, but its implementation is seriously bureaucratic and well behind the speed of climate change. That gap can only widen as the world careens towards potentially disastrous tipping points, where climate change could rapidly precipitate significant economic and societal change as well. And not for the better.

Claudine emphasised the need for an effective legal framework that enables the wide uptake of regenerative practices and also reminded us that while we might claim the right to do no harm to our biosphere, international law can still not yet enforce it in different countries.

We also talked about our personal agency for doing no harm in our own lives, for example in changing our consumption patterns and the choices we make about how to live. However, it remains challenging to source food that has been produced in regenerative ways from farm to table or to connect deeply with people when many spend their time in global digital realities with little energy for anything except what needs to get done.

In Claudine’s view - and I agree - it is really important that we raise awareness and campaign for systemic change, so that we can also shift our collective perceptions about what is important, together. In other words, regeneration is all about cultural change. I would add it requires to evolve our values.

Finding our agency for regenerative change

Our conversation then turned to a reflection on how we can actually implement small but potentially powerful changes in our organisations, even when we encounter powerful systemic barriers. While organisations often acknowledge the need to change, in reality we will often find ourselves dealing with substantial resistance and the reluctance to take action because we fear the uncertainty and disruption of the status quo. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

Inner work and outer work are key, since without personal transformation, meaningful change in the business context does not happen. As we described in series one of the Pocket Dojo podcast, regenerative leadership is all about who we bring of ourselves to situations, and what is therefore even possible in the spaces between us. It is very helpful then to find supportive communities where we can connect with other leaders who share the vision of a regenerative future.

Here are Claudine’s suggestions for practical steps that corporate leaders can take in their own learning journeys:

1. Assess your financial situation and educate yourself

   If you want to move away from traditional, extractive business models, be realistic about what is possible for you financially and consider working part-time as you dive into regenerative education and personal development. Balance your financial responsibilities with a commitment to your growth, without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

2. Make self-care a priority

   Spend time in nature, reduce your exposure to social media and find practices that help you to stay grounded and focused while you navigate the complexities of driving systemic change.

3. Discover your own purpose

   To create a regenerative world, purpose is essential in Claudine’s views. She has seen how people often overlook this as perhaps something fluffy, but we can easily become disconnected and frustrated when we don’t pay it enough attention. Having a clear sense of our own purpose - what is really important to us, that we commit to, even in the face of resistance - also helps us see how we fit into the larger puzzle of creating a regenerative future.

“The greatest discovery of all time is that a person can change [their] future by merely changing [their] attitude.”

Oprah Winfrey

It is clear that systemic change is paramount, given the systemic challenges we face as a species, arguably as never before in our human history. The path to regeneration is full of its own obstacles but we cannot ignore or vote away what is up ahead. Leaders who are committed can make changes and perhaps most importantly, create the conditions for much better things to happen. This is at the heart of managing complexity.

I hope you found this episode inspiring and a call to action in your own environment.

Thanks for watching.